An interview by Jane Stebbins, 2L
I met Paul Schwartz through a haphazard rout of musicians and environmental interests, and first spoke with him while I was still finding my feet early in my first year. In many ways, he has accomplished much of what I hope to accomplish: he has a solid job, he works with issues he cares about, he has time for his kids, and he's sort of a rock star. The following is a transcript of the email interview he was kind enough to have with me for my article on the EPA, found in the January 2010 issue of The Docket.
The following includes the personal views of both the interviewer and the interviewed, and not the official positions of EPA or the United States.
1. What do you think is the most pressing environmental issue facing the world right now?
Global warming. Remember, I'm a lawyer, not a scientist, but you have something like 99% of climate scientists on one side and some talk radio gasbags on the other, so I give more credence to the scientific consensus. And the "most pressing" part comes because of the likelihood (according to the scientists) that there is a tipping point which, if we pass it, very bad consequences will be unavoidable, no matter what we do.
2. What about here in Georgia and/or Atlanta itself?
Global warming, being global, is relevant for us here too. I work on water issues so it is more immediately obvious to me that Georgia will struggle to manage growth in a way that preserves water quality and quantity. If I were working on air or waste issues I might have a stronger sense of those problems. Air pollution from burning fossil fuels - mostly cars and power plants - probably has a greater public health impact in Georgia than any other environmental problem. The National Research Council just estimated that burning coal, oil and gas imposes at least $120 billion in hidden costs on the United States each year in the form of health impacts from air pollution. "http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=12794"
3. What small things that individuals can do make the biggest difference?
There are a lot of people here and elsewhere with more expertise than me. EPA's website lists lots of easy things to do. A few examples:
- Use less water! Take showers instead of baths, fix leaks, and turn off the tap when brushing your teeth. And buy efficient fixtures by looking for the WaterSense label.
- Save electricity! Do a home energy audit, get programmable thermostats, buy Energy Star products, turn stuff off when you’re done, and change your bulbs to compact fluorescents. (Saving energy also saves water because power plants are big water users).
- Commute without polluting! Use public transportation, carpool, walk, or bike whenever possible to reduce air pollution and save on fuel costs.
You asked me to identify things - but I don't want to sound like I am preaching and doing all of these things already - I try but I know I could do more myself.
4. With Obama in office, have there been any changes in your job at the EPA?
My day to day experience is not different, but every administration comes in with a different set of priorities. I'd say there is a greater focus on following science, and sort of a renewed effort to address some problems that have seemed intractable - figuring out how to deal with climate change, how to better address storm water and agriculture-related pollution, nutrient pollution of waters, and coal mining impacts. It's still early in the administration so policies in these areas are still emerging.
5. Last time we talked, you were concerned about a recent sup. ct. decision in regarding water. Has there been any fall out from that decision?
That would be the Rapanos decision on the scope of Clean Water Act jurisdiction - i.e., what waters are protected by the Clean Water Act. The Supreme Court failed to forge a majority opinion in an area that was already in great need of a clarifying opinion. Instead we got fractured opinions that raised more questions than they answered. While I think most waters that were jurisdictional before Rapanos are still jurisdictional - the resource impact on EPA, the Corps of Engineers (they do wetland permitting) and state agencies is huge because, first, everyone is willing to argue with you about whether a particular waterway is jurisdictional, and second, to demonstrate that a particular water meets the various jurisdictional tests of Rapanos requires enormous amounts of field work and legal support. As a result, we can handle fewer cases, and a lot of things go unaddressed.
6. What were the most useful things you learned in law school?
Umm, that was a long time ago. I don't think there was any particular subject area - but learning generally how to analyze legal issues and craft answers and arguments for legal issues is what you keep using. Pretty much what you learn in first year and legal writing class; all the other classes you pick up some subject matter but you are honing those core skills. Learning a specific subject area well really waits until you start practicing.
7. Tell me about how you ended up in environmental law, and then at the EPA:
Well, I was interested and took the environmental classes that were offered at UGA (which I remember as only two). There was a basic environmental law survey class, and then an environmental litigation class from a visiting professor. Then I worked for a big firm in a corporate department, which didn't interest me very much and didn't mesh very well with my other life in a rock band. So I applied to EPA and was lucky to get a job - I think it has become more competitive since then and now we tend to look for a more obvious environmental focus then I had at the time.
8. In a lot of the cases we read, the EPA is the scapegoat; either they're not doing enough, or they're doing too much - the ever present government tightrope. Especially now that the general public is finally freaking out about global warming and water, the EPA is really in the spotlight. Thoughts on this? Does this effect you and your job in any way?
Environmental matters will always be a flash point for controversy, because controlling pollution can be very costly, or can disrupt a status quo that someone is heavily invested in, and because there are a lot of people who are very passionate about protecting the environment, sometimes to a degree that the law doesn't necessarily validate. So a lot of times when you work on something it's like poking a hornet's nest. It's just part of the territory and you have to develop skills at navigating in a contentious environment. It can be hard but also keeps things interesting and shows that the things you are working on matter.
9. What is your day to day like?
I don't think it's that different from a lot of lawyers in private practice, except I work 40 hour weeks. I do a mix of counseling (on permitting matters) and enforcement, so I meet with clients, analyze legal issues and advise clients, negotiate settlements, work on litigation - both administrative and judicial. Unlike private practice, a lot of EPA's business leads up to formal agency action that must follow laws and regs and be supported by administrative records, so the lawyers are involved in keeping the agency out of trouble when it acts. I don't have to wear a suit, and that's a nice perk.
10. How do you manage the work - life balance?
I really do work 40-hour weeks. There are some exceptions, and occasional travel, but usually I take my kids to school in the morning and am home for dinner.
11. How big is the Legal Office?
I think we have about 75 lawyers in Atlanta.
12. Do you have any recommendations for aspiring students? Classes, extra curriculars, that kind of thing?
I'm not involved in hiring, but my sense is that if you want to work at EPA, which I recommend, it probably helps to have a resume that reflects a strong interest in the environment, and a good level of achievement. We do hire student interns during the school year and in summer, and often that can be a step towards getting a permanent job after graduation. Our openings are sporadic, and there are sometimes hiring freezes based on budget, so even though we hold resumes a while, timing can matter. I feel bad for law students looking for jobs this year because it is such a bad market, but we have been able to fill a number of attorney positions this year.
- Login to post comments